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Thoughts on Spoo and other things.

I've been tossing around an idea to actually go through the Lurker's Guide while re-watching Bablyon 5 with Nar.  It's something I've done before with specific episodes that I watch frequently, but I've never actually gone through the whole of it.  Which is ridiculous considering how much I love this show and what a great resource it is.  I mean, how many other shows do you know of that the head writer/creator/producer of the show answers valid questions about every single episode as they were aired? 

So for now, I think I might start recording some of my responses to it here.  No, it's not quite fic related, but he's got some comments about writing in general that I think really apply to me.  Besides, with as much as I learned about writing stories from B5, it'll probably be insightful.  Maybe.  Maybe not.  Maybe I'll just talk about Spoo.  However, there is a hope that good things might come from this. 

And if a causal reader decides that, hey, this show Mem keeps talking about sounds interesting!  I should go check it out!  We~ll, I wouldn't stop you. <3  No, not at all.  Spoilers are a bit of a given, but they won't be spoilers for the whole of the series, just that specific episode.    Anything in quotes will be from the JMS Speaks section of The Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5 unless otherwise noted.

Let us start with the pilot episode: The Gathering.  Unlike most tv pilots, this pilot is directly related to the series and not plot rehashed later.  So while a lot of things were changed (usually for the better) from the series to the pilot, the pilot is still very much canon.

I love that lying is such a huge thing in Babylon 5.  Especially since you aren't aware of the lie until later.  He says that basically everyone, including the main protagonist Sinclair, lies at some point in the pilot.  And it's wonderful.  <3

The character of Laurel Takashima.  JMS's notes on her are quite interesting, actually.  As much as there's no way in hell I would trade her for Ivanova (the character who replaces her in the series), it would have been interesting to see Takashima's plot line more developed.  For example:

"What Kyle suggests...is closer to the truth than might otherwise be suspected. We had filmed a scene -- which never made it into the finished pilot -- where Garibaldi, growing suspicious of his boss -- confronts Sinclair in the core shuttle. One of the alibis he checked out doesn't hold up: Sinclair's. The transport tube computer records don't indicate any delay. Sinclair suggests that there's either a problem with the system, or it's been deliberately altered to remove that information.

It was, of course, the latter.

Now...stop and think about this for a moment.

The Observation Dome has equipment to detect approaching ships. The spider transport approaches without being noticed. The surface of the station would likely have sensors to detect something attaching itself to the hull. Somehow these were over-ridden. The only time that anyone notices, up in the Dome, is later, when Laurel isn't there, interestingly enough. Someone deliberately programmed the transport tube to delay Sinclair. The assassin would have to know this in advance.

We saw Londo with the assassin. We also saw Garibaldi, Lyta, Dr. Kyle and -- later -- Sinclair with the assassin, each relating to him in different ways. Who was the one person we never saw with the assassin, whose reactions might have told us something? Who was the one put in charge of the station when Sinclair was pulled out of circulation?


We had some...interesting things in mind for this character. Now that another character has come in, some things will be modified, but other elements will come in to replace them."

The scene he mentions with Garibaldi and Sinclair is eventually put back in the directors cut and is lovely.  And just looking at the paragraph, you can see how much of a sneaky bastard JMS is.  This is why I like him.  <3  It also makes for a very interesting take on Takashima's speech on 'breaking the rules.'  She said she hadn't broken the rules in a long time... but JMS also likes having characters lie.  He frequently says 'whether it was willingly or unwillingly' in conjunction with what Might Have Been with Takashima's character.  I really wish they had found some way to revisit her plot line later in the series, like they did with the War Without End episodes in season three.  It is very much sadness.  However, we do get Ivanova when Takashima is sent on a mission to the Rim, so it's all good.  Ivanova is, after all, one of the most awesome characters ever. 

More on Takashima:

"Think hard about the pilot for a moment. Whose job is it in the observation dome to monitor incoming ships...but apparently let the spider transport slip through unnoticed? The station's skin should have (and likely did) detect something clamping onto it...but apparently someone over-rode that for the spider transport. Someone had to PRE-arrange access via the computer for the assassin, since it easily palms its way into Varner's quarters. (And what is the name of the person the access computer recognizes?) Someone had to arrange for the transport tube to be delayed, and then *erase* that information from the computer system. Someone who knew *exactly* when the Vorlon ship would be docking. We see, at various times, the following people interacting with the assassin, in different capacities: Garibaldi, Lyta, G'Kar, Londo, Dr. Kyle, and of course, much later, Sinclair. Who did we never see in direct contact with the assassin? Who was put in charge of the station after Sinclair was removed?

Do you notice a pattern developing? Do certain things here point to a certain individual...who may, or may not, have been acting on her own volition?

And yes, this is something we planned to explore, though it wasn't on a *direct* line to the arc of our story. It definitely impinged upon it, of course. This has been modified due to the change in the character of the Lieutenant Commander, and this now won't go where it was going to go...but we still have some very interesting plans for our secondary character, not at all along the Takashima lines (which is why this isn't a spoiler), but certainly intriguing on their own terms."

"There was a reason we gave Londo the pilot opening monologue, yes. And another reason why we're giving Sinclair the opening monologue over credits of the first season, though with some differences. We're also considering rotating any such opening between other cast members as well, but *always* in the past-tense, "Babylon 5 *was*...." We're dealing in future history here, and we plan to do some interesting things with that aspect.

Yeah, Londo seems like the *least* likely person to do the opening narration for a show like this; you don't even see him for nearly two full acts, and it's the kind of thing you'd expect the Commander to do.

But there are reasons for everything....

"Mankind" was being used by Londo specifically in relation to humans, not sentient aliens including his own race. Earthers. Which was one reason (of many) I wanted his character to be the narrator, someone looking in from the outside.

As for the Third Age, it's -- oh, darn, look at the time, have to go...."

I like the whole putting the future as past thing.  It's sort of exemplified later on with The Deconstruction of Falling Stars, but I won't go into that episode for now.  And I really like the whole 'Outsider' vantage point of humanity.  They did the same with In The Beginning, which, fair warning, is not the place to start watching B5.  Just because it's chronologically first, does not mean you get to watch it before you've seen the whole of the series, lol.  Either way, it's a great set up for commentary on humanity, and one they use frequently through out the series.  The aliens are aliens, after all, and how they view us is as interesting as how we view them.  Great dynamic, basically.  I sometimes wish Who would use it more often. 

Now here's one point I brought up while watching the pilot, which was why Sinclair and Garibaldi were the only ones going after the shapeshifter:

"As for Sinclair going after the Minbari assassin...there were several reasons for this. First, this was personal for him; if the guy *wasn't* caught, he would be blamed for the death and sent to the Vorlon homeworld. He had something very much at stake. Second, if you have somebody with shapeshifting technology on board, the LAST thing you want is to send in a large group. The tracking of the energy web used for the holographic effect was good, but only to a certain point. It could say "He's ten feet away," but if there's 5 guys within that range, it'll take you just long enough to react for the assassin to wipe out the bunch of you before you figure out which one he is. But if there's only *two* of you, and you hear the shifter is within 10 feet, you know *exactly* who it is and can react accordingly. It seemed logical. Also, you'd want someone there who you knew VERY well, in case there were a replacement...because while someone could emulate a face, they can't replicate memories, and Sinclair or Garibaldi could quickly figure out if the other was an imposter."

I'll give you that.  It makes sense. 

I won't go into all his commentary about comparing B5 to Star Trek, but really, that's almost painful to go into.  The fact that he has to respond to that so frequently in the beginning would have driven me mad. But the basic gist is that you're comparing apples to oranges.  They are completely different shows.  Don't expect one to behave like the other.  Just because they are science fiction does not make them comparable, really.  Which, considering when this show was made, there really wasn't much other scifi available on television.  Still, I feel for him greatly on that matter.  But this is worth mentioning:

"The VOYAGER pilot is *$23 million*?!

The BABYLON 5 pilot was $3.5 million.

With $23 million, we could make 1.3 SEASONS of B5. And have a bit of money left over for a wrap party.


"The most entertaining thing for a writer is creating a character; the second most entertaining thing is killing off a character. Believe me, as you'll see in the Fight To The Death in the pilot, I have no problem dropping a body. And as far as I'm concerned, only 2 or 3 characters in this series are indispensible...the rest are open to all kinds of interesting fates."

That is a cruel, cruel thing to say, JMS... and also a very, very true one.  I'll admit I've done a bit more of that than I really should, when OC's are concerned...  Granted, I'm no where near as bad as the Game of Thrones guy, but hey.  A good death every so often helps.  And it's fun. 

"We'd originally planned to go for a more vague sexuality for Delenn; a male physically and primarily in the voice, on top of the natural female movements one gets from an actress. In post-production, however, we couldn't get the voice to sound as good and male as we'd wanted. In addition, a couple of convention showing of a rough cut saw people responding VERY strongly to her voice as it was, so we finally decided to let it stand and change the one reference to "he" to "she," and that was the end of it.

Delenn was originally going to be a fairly sexually-ambiguous character...a male character, played by a female, with a computer altered voice...but we couldn't make the alteration sound good enough to satisfy us, so we left her a her."

This was actually new information to me upon looking up the different versions of the pilot.  I always thought Delenn was much more manly in the pilot, but I never realized they had plans for it.  An eventual transgendered character would have been interesting, just the same as sexually ambiguous characters are.  At the same time, keeping her female really makes the moments where she kicks ass much more satisfying from a female perspective.  I think it would have been interesting either way.  Definitely would have put a different spin on the flirting in the second season though.  Maybe I'm just greedy in liking my strong female characters who are in charge. 

Other notes on the pilot:  So glad that G'kar and Delenn's make-up and prosthetics changed for the better for the series.  Also, Kosh's encounter suit opening like a shiny, magical Vagina is not addressed, sadly.  XD  Also, sneaky Sinclair being utra-sneaky is awesome.  <3

Midnight on the Firing Line:

"I *love* "Duck Dodgers." I have virtually all of the WB cartoons on tape or disk, and from where I sit, that's wonderful stuff that'll be around for a long, long time. No omens, just something I thought would be fun. (Again, connecting past/present/future, sort of our B5 theme.)"

And this is why both you and Garibaldi are awesome.  Just saying.  I love that Garibaldi's second favorite thing in the universe is Duck Dodgers, and that he has to find someone to appreciate it with.  One of the things that always tickles me when we see Garibaldi's quarters is that he has a giant tapestry-rug of Daffy Duck up on his wall.  Plus that scene is just precious anyway.  For the record, his third favorite thing is Tea, which just makes me adore him more.  Michael Garibaldi really is one of my favorite characters... which isn't saying much because a lot of them are my favorite characters, but hey. 

""Midnight on the Firing Line" as a title was more my feelings about the episode and the series. I knew we'd come under considerable fire, figured it was cool.

"...and if our future lies on the firing line, are we brave enough to see the signals and the signs...."
-- Harry Chapin
Just a thought."

Now this would be one of the places I differ from JMS.  He has a thing for titles, whereas I'm more or less ambiviant towards them.  I certainly do appreciate a good one though, and he does a lot of very good titles in the series.  I know he mentions the importance of titles in one of these, but I suppose I'll mention that when I find it again in whatever episode it was.

"Ah, but you're assuming that the Londo-strangling-scene is as it seems to be; maybe it is, but maybe it isn't. You don't know the context yet."

CONTEXT.  In retrospect, JMS, you are a bastard.  But we love you anyway.  XD  

"Quick replies to your question: Spoo is. What else can one say about spoo?

What is spoo? Spoo....is.

(Spoo is also Oops spelled backward.)

Spoo is/are (the plural of spoo is spoo) small, white, pasty, mealy critters, rather worm-like, and generally regarded as the ugliest animals in the known galaxy by just about every sentient species capable of starflight, with the possible exception of the pak'ma'ra, who would simply recommend a more rigorous program of exercise. They are also generally considered the most delicious food in all of known space, regardless of the individual's biology, almost regardless of species, except for the pak'ma'ra, who like the flavor but generally won't say so simply to be contrary.

Spoo are raised on ranches on worlds with a damp, moist, somewhat chilly climate so that their skin can acquire just the right shade of paleness. Spoo travel in herds, if moving a total of six inches in any given direction in the course of a given year can actually be considered moving. They stay in herds ostensibly for mutual protection, but the reality is that if they weren't propped up against one another, most of them would simply fall down. They do not howl, bark, moo, purr, yap, squeak or speak. Mainly, they sigh. Herds of sighing spoo can reportedly induce unparalleled bouts of depression, which is why most spoo ranchers wear earmuffs even when it's only mildly cold, damp, wet and dreary outside. If there is any life-or-death struggle for dominance within the spoo herd, it has not yet been detected by modern science.

Spoo ranching is one of the least regarded professions known. Little or no skill is required, once you've got a planet with the right climate. You bring in two hundred spoo, plop them down in the middle of your ranch, and go back to the nearby house. Soon you've got more. When it comes time to cull out the ones ready for market (the softest, mealiest, palest, most forlorn-looking spoo of the pack), little physical effort is required since they're incapable of rapid movement without falling over (see above). They do not resist, fight, or whine; they only sigh more loudly. When spoo harvest time comes, the air is full of the sound of whacking and sighing, whacking and sighing. Even an experienced spoo rancher can only harvest for brief periods of a time, due to the increased volume of sighing, which even the sound of whacking cannot altogether erase. (also see above) Some have simply gone mad.

Spoo are the only creatures of which the Interstellar Animal Rights Protection League says, simply, "Kill 'em."

Fresh spoo (served at an optimum temperature of 62-degrees) is served in cubed sections, so that they bear as little resemblence as possible to the animal from which they have just been sliced. Spoo is usually served alongside a chablis, or a white zinfandel.

Further information on the care, feeding, eating and whacking of spoo can be found in the second edition of the Interstellar Guide to Fine Dining.

Re: your desire to make and eat spoo at home...depends on whether or not you ever want to have children later....

What does spoo taste like?
Meat Jello.

Served chilled."

Spoo.  Oh, god, spoo.  I think the fact that he literally came up with that on the spot is awesome and is exactly the sort of crack I adore.  It also brings up the question of why the hell haven't I used spoo in my DW fics yet?  Seriously, I've written over fifty fics, more than a few of them with various B5 references thrown in, but nothing with Spoo yet.  This is a travesty.  I think it should be part of Amy-verse, with the Doctor rambling off that random explanation and Amy trying it and being all like "BLECK".    Then the Master coming in and saying that was a load of crap the Doctor was saying, and have some more orgasmic chocolate.  XD 

Spoo always makes me miss the old Stellar Cons too, since the Con Suite (the place with the free food/snacks) was called "The House of Spoo."  And, of course, in the B5 Southpark parody, there are calls for 'cheesy spoo'. 

"Here's what I find curious (not necessarily in direct response to anything you said, but in general on this topic)...is that when Ivanova makes her remark to Garibaldi about snapping his hands off at the wrists, many people have assumed that she was insulting him, berating him, being bitchy, truly disliking and threatening him.

But the same words, put in the mouth of another male, wouldn't have drawn that reaction, and would've been classified under, "kidding around" or affable sarcasm.

Which is exactly what it is in this case. In this place and this time, they're comfortable enough to mess with each other without it being taken seriously (among these characters, that is). There are times they kinda like to phuque with each other a bit, justfor the hell of it, as comrades will sometimes do. ("Babylon Squared" has a great example of Sinclair and Garibaldi messing with Ivanova.)"

It really annoys the feminist part of me that he had to fight this.  He also had some comments about Takashima that were similiar, which I didn't post.  In fact, the stations execs said the actress either had to 'soften' the delievery or the show wouldn't make.  >.>  I'm so glad that they managed to keep this with Ivanova though.  Ivanova is a tough character.  She's a career military officer who has had a tough life and bottles it up inside when things get rough.  And she's female who isn't afraid of kicking butt (unless the actress actually sprains her ankle, in which case certain scenes were slightly rewritten, but that's another episode.  XD ).  She was probably one of my biggest role models growing up too.  So thank you for not backing down on that, JMS.  We love you and Ivanova all the more for it. 

More on lying:
"I like it when people lie in television, and we find out about it over time. The "lost colony" routine was one such. At one point, Garibaldi confronts Londo with this as reason for why he doesn't trust the Centauri. Londo shrugs it off as a "clerical error." There will be a few points in the series when we'll get information, and we'll buy into it...and discover after a while that that character bald-facedly lied to the other character (and, by proxy, to us). And naturally there will be consequences to this...."

"Re: Sinclair getting into a fighter...there were a number of reasons for this, one of which being he wanted a good reason to avoid being in on the counsel vote, given his marching orders. But more than that ...I would point out that this isn't Star Trek, and Sinclair isn't Picard; he is first and foremost a pilot. He loves to get into a fighter and take it out He's a fighter. That's when he is most at ease. That's what his character *is*.

At the same time, however, there are consequences for that kind of behavior, as you point out. And there are deeper reasons for what he is doing than even he want to admit. Tell you what...table that aspect until after you've seen the last part of "Infection," which deals *with this exact issue*."

Besides, it's more realistically military than Trek ever was.  And we like that, we really do.  At least military brats like me do.  XD

And now, some amusing behind the scenes bits:
"During the con appearance, Jerry told a story that *I* hadn't heard before. There's a scene in the script "Midnight on the Firing Line" in which Talia (Andrea) goes into a transport tube, finds Garibaldi, and asks some questions about Ivanova. They rehearsed it several times, this being Andrea's first time on the set, and filmed one take. She comes down the hall, comes to the pen...and Garibaldi's pants are down around his ankles. Needless to say, that shot did NOT end up in dailies....

There are days I think -- between Jerry, Harlan, me and some others involved on the show -- we ought to name this Loose Cannon Productions...."

"Behind-the-scenes humor: because it had been so long since the pilot, it took a few of our actors a bit of time to get back into their characters, to find the characters' "fingerprints" for lack of a better term. This is quite understandable given the long waiting period. When he needed to find his character for a scene, Peter Jurasik mentioned that he would just stand up straight and yell, "MISter GariBALdi!" and he'd be right back in character. Sort of the B5 version of "Shazam!"

Minus the lightning bolt, of course."

Can I just say I love Londo?  I do.  I really, really do. 

Other notes for this episode:  I really do adore Sneaky Sinclair.  I mean, aside from my epic love affair with his voice (which is deep, and lovely, and very sexy), Sinclair is a brilliant character.  And he's SNEAKY.  *sneak sneak*

Soul Hunter:

"Well, I just saw a cut of the episode that's going to air second, the one guest-starring Morgan Shepherd. Oh, man...on the question of Did you learn anything from the pilot...this thing *moves* like a sumbitch. It's a very unusual, very *creepy* episode in many ways. And filled with character stuff...and a good bit of background about some of our characters rendered in active ways. I'm really dying to see what people think of this one when it airs. It manages to take what would normally be considered a science *fantasy* issue, and deal with it from a science fiction perspective, without compromising on the latter at all. It's a very, *very* strong episode."

Yeah, we could see that creepy guy was creepy.  There was no doubt on that end.  He's a creepier.  That said, I really do like this episode a lot.

"Who's right, the soul hunter or the minbari?

Bastard.  Are we surprised that he's worse than the Vorlons?  Nope.  And admittedly, this is why we love him.

"What the soul was, who's right, and even whether this is SF or Science Fantasy, was it explained enough to merit one over the other ... how can I put this...? I don't want to spoon-feed stuff to people. What I want is not to hit someone with a MORAL, or a message, or "This is what a soul is," or "This is what makes it an SF series," I want to start discussions. Arguments. Preferably a bar fight or two.

We present an issue. Here are the sides. Now...what do YOU think about it? I want this show to ask, "Who are you? Where are you going?" That's half the fun. Some of my favorites pastimes in college were sitting in the commons, or the library, arguing this stuff from every possible angle. You think I'm gonna tell you what to think? What it means? No. The goal is to provoke discussion. Preferably passionate discussion.

Otherwise I might as well just start renting billboards and putting up signs."

And this is one of the things that is lovely about Bablyon 5.  Actually, in the second season there's an episode that still disturbs me to this day, and it's precisely for that reason, but I'll go into that one more later.  Basically, openness is a good thing.

"In "Soul Hunter," Franklin notes that the average human life span is now about a hundred years. It's quite a bit longer for the other races; G'Kar is about 70 or more, but is considered mid-range, equal to a human in early 40s, among Narns. Delenn is in about the same position, equal to 30s-40s in her terms, but in years a bit older. They are a pretty long lived people. Centauri aren't quite as long-lived, but they do a bit better than the Narns. The Vorlons......are."

Just an interesting side note on ages of the races.  I thought it was interesting, at least... It's the sort of detail that I come up with in the back of my mind, so it's always nice to see someone else doing it too.

"In your complaints regarding the commander flying off on occasional missions (and he only does it about 3 times out of 22 episodes, so I hardly see this as a problem), you are forgetting several other *realities* of military life. If you're a pilot, even as a commander, you have to log in X-number of hours flying time per month in order to continue to qualify for flight pay. This is a *requirement*. And it doesn't just mean flying around the station a few times.

Second, many commanders -- as recently as Vietnam and afterward -- did and continue to go out on missions and sorties because it is rather expected of them, and because it maintains the respect of the rest of the squadron(s).

Third, and possibly most important, Earthforce is the same as the contermporary Air Force in one important respect: promotion up the ranks is tied *directly* to combat experience and, in this case, combat flying. That's why women fighter pilots and helicopter pilots have been fighting so *vigorously* to be allowed to fly combat missions; they know that they can't be promoted fully up the line without that. Sinclair has no desire to be a commander all his life, he'd like to move on. Hence it behooves him to get in combat time whenever possible.

Your statement that it "doesn't wash" has nothing to do with how the military *actually* works, and everything to do with the skewed and inaccurate portrayal of the military that you get from Trek. This is absolutely legitimate, and the B5 mailbox these days is partly crammed with letters from vets thanking us for getting this part right.

I suppose I could mention this in passing in dialogue, but then it becomes a matter of sticking in dialogue not because it's important to an episode, but because some folks would like things explained to them. I don't think that's my responsibility."

So this is a bit of railing against Trek, but I also like it.  This is definitely a military drama in many aspects, and let's face it... Picard not being able to go on half the missions always annoyed the hell out of me.  It's like... really?  So it's really nice to see that Sinclair likes to get his hands dirty. 

"Re: the medical tools...we brought in a medical science consultant, who helped us design our instruments. His sense was that we're moving more and more toward light as a system of treatment, non-invasive procedures, that sort of thing. No, there aren't anything like those devices in today's operating rooms...but this is 250 years from now. In any event, it *is* based on the latest info we're getting on new science from our medical advisor."

That is just cool.  Really.  I'm not sure why this tickles my fancy that they brought in someone to design these things, but it does.

Additional notes: Can I say how really, really glad I am to have a scifi writer be willing to explore death as something else other than just nothingness?  And this is coming from the current me, as the me that grew up on B5 sort of grew to expect science fiction and religion to be able to work together fantastically.  Then I met the rest of the world.  >.<  Either way, I do love how JMS works religion into the show.  It's fantastic, non-judgmental, and very well done.  Why does it take an athiest to do these things right, people?  But especially after how depressing RTD's view on death was, it's refreshing to go back and find science fiction that - no, it doesn't say which one is right or wrong - gives some alternate view points on death. 

Though, JMS never did quite convince me that he was athiest.  I mean, just look at the series, for crying out loud.  Still, I won't argue.  XD 

And wow, this is a lot longer than I thought this would be.  I guess I'll split the episodes we got through into two posts.  I'll work on the others later.

In short... Do yourself a favor and watch B5.  Really.  But hey, don't take my word for it.  XD  See for yourself.


( 8 comments — Leave a comment )
Feb. 17th, 2012 03:24 am (UTC)
The VOYAGER pilot is *$23 million*?!
The BABYLON 5 pilot was $3.5 million.


I agree with you on Delenn. I mean, when I was looking at the pilot, I thought that's what they were trying to do (make a sexually ambiguous character), but she seems a lot more badass being a girl, I think. :)

He has a thing for titles, whereas I'm more or less ambiviant towards them.

Aw man, I love titles. I frequently agonize over them, and I never feel like I've got a story in my grasp unless I have the perfect title for it. Same goes for naming characters; if I haven't found their name, I haven't found them yet. There's a certain significance and shaping when one names something, I think.
...And then there's original series Star Trek, which does NOT know how to name their episodes at ALL. I think I even have a post on that somewhere...

Reading on the bit about Ivanova that you have there, she kinda reminds me of the lead role in a Canadian radio drama called "Afghanada," basically about 3 Canadian solders shipped out to Afghanistan. Sergeant Patricia "Coach" Kinsella was the commanding officer for these two other guys, and she was awesome. At first a lot of people were like "A WOMAN COMMANDING OFFICER?! WHAT?!" but then later everyone was like, "Man, that's like the awesome-est thing." It did rather well as a series; it lasted for five seasons, right up until the date when the Canadian troops withdrew in 2011. It also won awards and things.
...Long story short, hurrah for badass female military characters!

"Who's right, the soul hunter or the minbari?

Damn it, this man is my father.

"What I want is not to hit someone with a MORAL, or a message, or "This is what a soul is," or "This is what makes it an SF series," I want to start discussions. Arguments. Preferably a bar fight or two.

This is what makes it a "literary" show, as opposed to a "popular" one. And that's a good thing. :-)

The Vorlons......are.

lol. XD

Picard not being able to go on half the missions always annoyed the hell out of me. It's like... really?

It annoyed me too. I mean, why did Kirk get to go gallavanting around all the time, and Picard was just stuck in the captain's chair! X(
Feb. 17th, 2012 03:26 am (UTC)
Aha, I found it.


Star Trek never names things the right way.
Feb. 17th, 2012 04:16 am (UTC)
I know! That's like, a ridiculous difference in money. And personally, I think B5 used what little money they did have much better. Plus, the alien prosthetics really were awesome.

She iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis. Maybe I wouldn't have minded so much if they had just kept her non-gendered, but once they went full female on her it's like... She must stay that way. She is far too cool to take away her feminine badass-ness. Seriously. There is The Scene, which is somewhere in the third season, I think? Anyway, she is so insanely badass that it will make the feminist in you weep for joy. Delenn is fucking terrifying when angry and heaven help those that get on her bad side.

I'm not so much on titles, myself, as I said. Sometimes I find good ones, sometimes I don't, but I usually don't stress over them. Names are a bit different. That's always one of the first things I do for characters, is find a name. And name changing is something I don't like doing and will only go for at a last resort. Though, you can tell when I'm being fickle with a character when their name changes...

Speaking of names, I would really like to say I hate Ice Warrior names passionately. Just bear that in mind.

We really do need more badass military women in our lives. Especially of the non-Janeway variety. If you're going for a female Captain, do it the Lochley way. <3 She didn't take anyone's shit, threw Garibaldi in the brig when she needed to, and ran the station the way she saw fit, even if it was against what the other characters wanted. But that's season five, so you sadly won't be seeing her for a very long while yet, lol.

Damn it, this man is my father.

:o Your father is a Vorlon.

Literary shows are good. I'm actually quite interested to see your reaction to one of the episodes in the second season. It poses more moral issues that he doesn't give you an answer for and it still disturbs me. My parents had to have a very long talk with me when I first watched it, because it really bothered me.

Actually, scratch what I said about it being in the second season. I don't know why I thought it was that late. It's only four episodes away. So yeah. Look forward to that one. It's a tough one.

Picard is stuck in the Captain's chair and he'll never get a frickin' promotion. Cause seriously, that is not how the military works in the slightest. >.>
Feb. 17th, 2012 04:26 am (UTC)
You know, I haven't had much exposure to Ice Warriors really, so I wouldn't know what their names are like. ^^;; (I think I saw them in......Peladon. ...Yeah.)

Especially of the non-Janeway variety.

Aw, but I liked Captain Janeway. (I'm still a Trekkie, too, remember. XD)

It honestly wouldn't surprise me if my father was a Vorlon. He knew how to multiply fractions in kindergarten. That just isn't normal.

Well, at least I will have you there with me to endure whatever this mindscrew is that happens in four episodes. XD

I try not to think of Star Trek military working in the same way as regular military. (Why do the ambassadors have more command decision that the captain? WHAT.) I think of it as being its own, completely separate system that was somewhat very loosely based on the military. And then I sit back and enjoy the episodes where it actively points out that Starfleet is so, so flawed.
Feb. 17th, 2012 04:39 am (UTC)
I actually really like the Ice Warriors for some reason. Except their names of course. But they're fun aliens. Lots of good Two episodes with them.

I liked Janeway too, but let's face it. She wasn't the sort of feminist Captain she could have been.

Mem is a military brat, so sometimes it's just a little jarring. And JMS, I think, had more than a little right to point that out to people. After reading a few of his comments, he must have had the patience of a saint who still blew up at a few of them because hey, not even saints can get through that. So yeah, he was a bit harsh on the Trek, but mostly because they forced him to be.

Starfleet really is flawed. -_-;;; but we like it anyway.
Feb. 17th, 2012 04:47 am (UTC)
I did like what I saw of the Ice Warriors. The problem is I just need more Two in my repetoire, and you kinda have to be in a certain mood for all them reconstructions.

She definitely could've been infinitely more badass, I agree.

The flaws are what make it fun. :D
Feb. 17th, 2012 04:31 am (UTC)


Feb. 17th, 2012 04:41 am (UTC)
Re: Also
Oh, my. XD

That's not the next episode, but the one after that, btw. I mean, really. Walter Koenig as Knight 2 would have been shiver inducing. And I like that episode lots. THERE IS INDEED A HOLE. <3
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