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Things that annoy Mem

So lately, I've come across a lot of things in fic that annoy me.  I'm not sure if it's just me or it's the world that's gone crazy.  It's gotten to the point though that I really just need to rant and let it all out.  Because exploding, while entertaining, is never as much fun when you're the one being exploded.  So I suppose here is a meme of pet peeves that I have in fanfic.

The Top Ten Things Mem Currently Finds Most Annoying In Fic: (In no particular order)

1. OOC:
Characterization is my prime focus in writing, especially with my own characters, but for now we're just talking other people's.  First, when working with someone else's characters, it's only respectful to keep them in character.  People enjoy fanfics the most when even the crackiest notion is fulfilled with everyone somehow still in character.  Now, there are different ways to write a character, definitely.  Take, for example, Tony Stark.  I've seen and enjoyed several plays on his character, ranging from simple excessive babbling to something close to Aspergers, but they've still managed to strike a mark in me that agrees and says 'yeah, I can see that.'  Maybe some of them are a harder fit than others, but if you characterize well enough, you can spin just about anything. 

I'm serious.  If you have doubts, I've written a Gen fic of the Brigadier and Simm Master teaming up, and it's probably one of my best received Who fics to date.  Over half of the responses to that fic was "I never pictured that working" and yet it some how did.  That's because I let the characters drive the plot, rather than the plot driving them.  There were a few times I wanted the Brig to laugh at something the Master said, but stopped myself and re-wrote it.  Because the Master has done a lot to the Brigadier over the years, and laughing was just not going to happen.  I didn't force them into my way of thinking, rather, just letting the characters control the conversation.  This has occasionally backfired on me (*cough* Brigadier.  >.>  Yes, I'm looking at you and your insistence on barging in on fics where you have no purpose for being), but that's only usually in word length rather than the characterization going wrong.  Nar, in fact, seems to be under the opinion that I should totally just give in to any and all of the Brig's demands in my fic.  He's far from the first character to take over a fic...  nor the last.  I mean you, Flynn.  That fic was supposed to be from Sodia's POV until you demanded cuteness. 

Anyway, as you can imagine, it annoys me greatly when they're out of character. Seriously, I was reading Vesperia fic and getting annoyed by it, and a lot of it was from a few other points I'll be making, and a some minor details, but then one of my own reviewers pointed it out to me.  "...you managed to keep them in character and still some kind of relationship, most y/f i've read always fail on that."  And I stared at that statement for a while and it clicked.  Because, yes, yes, that's been my problem with the whole fandom.  In order to get the pairing to work, the characterization was always sacrificed and bastardized, instead of worked with to create a realistic relationship between the two characters.  Because it's easier that way, because we like compartmentalizing and categorizing characters so they fit within our rules. But that's wrong, because it's not our rules that the characters should be following, but their own. 

For example, I was reading a Gen fic about Flynn and Yuri which had a great premise.  Yuri is framed for a crime and Flynn has to prove that he's innocent, which is a great plot, fits well with the game, and can have some good friendship moments for me to revel in.  Except that no, it was screwy.  Flynn starts off the whole thing making sure that it wasn't Yuri.  You know, before Yuri was even accused?  He was looking for evidence to the contrary to prove to himself that it wasn't Yuri.  This from the same character who Estelle flat out says "You really believe in Yuri, don't you?" in the game.  Yes, Yuri has killed people in the game, but he's never once gone astray from his principles which the crime in the fic was most obviously against.  And you have Flynn being relieved at tell-tale signs that it wasn't Yuri even before he's accused?  Wtf, writer?  I just want to shake them and tell them to rewrite the fic.  To make Flynn believe it couldn't have been Yuri from the start, even without evidence, and go from there, because that's how it fits with their characters.  I finally just had to stop reading that fic, because not only was it just ridiculous (and they killed Ioder.  T_T ), but the evidence Flynn was making note of would, in fact, be very admissible in court and he was acting like it wasn't.  It just simply didn't make sense for Flynn's characterization, and I wanted to sit there and completely tear though it, but I was good and just didn't comment. 

So, yeah.  Characterization.  At least make an attempt to do it right.  >.>

2. Submissive characters:
I'm not talking about characters who tend to act submissively.  I'm talking about taking characters who obviously will put up a resistance and making them completely and totally submissive.  I'm talking to you, Ten and Five writers.  >.>  Well, obviously, not all of you.  But let's face it, I've seen more submissive Five and Ten fics than I can count, and it grates on my nerves quite a lot.  Because, no, no matter how sexy it is to you for some odd reason, the Doctor is never going to just roll over and take it from the Master.  Five spent his entire run thwarting the Master's plans, and he can't hold his own in bed?  Seriously?  So that whole mental test of wills in the King's Demons didn't happen or something, cause I seem to remember Five winning that.  And Ten spent a whole year patiently fighting back against the Master, and yet just calmly takes the Master's abuse on the TARDIS?  I don't really mean bottoming here, since sure, never been there myself, but some people like it so hey, go for it!  But this whole submissive thing is not only OOC but really sort of creepy. 

Making the Master submissive, while rarer, is also just as ridiculous.  It's one of the things I made double sure of while writing those bloody sex-driven fics for the Broken Realities series, was that the Master was still looking for a way out and that he never actually gave in to the Doctor.  He let himself enjoy it, eventually, but he hasn't given up.  If I ever get around to writing the third part, it would not only have the Master finally topping (God, why must that series have so much sex and why do I have to write it? T_T ), but it would end with the Master leaving the TARDIS to go and be Master-y again, leaving the Doctor.  Because he can't stay a prisoner, it's not in his nature.  Except, every time I sit and think, hey, I might try and finish up that series this time because I really want to write that ending! I remember all the sex I would have to write.  And then I find a corner and cry, before deciding to attempt writing anything else.  I'm pathetic, I know.  No need to tell me.

Flynn gets this treatment a lot too, though for the life of me I can't see why.  It's totally out of character, for one thing.  Mostly though, one of the most interesting things about Flynn and Yuri's relationship, gen or slashy, is that they both know how to rile each other up.  There's no backing down between them, and they say exactly what the other needs to hear, no matter how much they don't want to hear it.  It's the way they both push each other into following their ideals, rather than slipping up and becoming the thing they hate.  They're constantly fighting, whether with words or with swords, but there's an underlining respect for each other there and it's obvious they both think extremely highly of the other.  But in order to make that relationship work, neither can really submit to the other.  They've got to keep pushing at each other, but for some reason at least half the Vesperia fics I've read have been with a super subby Flynn.  It just blows my mind and I have no idea where they are getting this from, unless it's the fact that Yuri is apparently not subby and therefore Flynn must be.  Because again, conforming the characters into our rules and categories.

In short, hey, nothing against bottoming, but does every relationship have to have a dom/sub quality to it?  Especially when the characters don't actually fit into those roles.  It's fine every so often, I suppose, but I see it far to often for me not to be weird-ed out by it. 

3. Bottom or Top only characters:
Okay, this sort of goes with the last point, and I know I'm probably the last person to be able to make a solid judgement on this, but seriously...  Who actually only does one or the other?  Again, still virginal in every sense of the word and sex scenes don't even turn me on for the most part, so my opinions on this may be moot, but to me this just doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense.  I mean, sex isn't just missionary position, right?  So one would assume that goes for gay sex too.  It's not just one position, and hey, maybe your partner might enjoy the other way around or, I dunno, something different?  I am way out of my league on this one though, so feel free to tell me otherwise.  It just seems way more natural to me that partners would be more fluid rather than the rigid 'this character always tops and this character always bottoms' I see so often in fanfic.  Then again, I get bored really easily with sex scenes, so that's probably why I have time to contemplate these things.  Sigh.

Basically, is switching things up all that bad?  Really?

4. Ignorance of canon history:
This makes me feel like an elitist for saying, but it really does bother me.  Now, I'm not saying missing minor details or something like that, though that does occasionally get to me too.  There was one fic I read where Thor really didn't like the doctors and distrusted them, and it took me forever to figure out where the hell the writer had gotten that from, since, hey, Donald Blake, his alter ego.  I don't even read the comics, for pity's sake, but I didn't figure it out until I watched the movie again and went, oh.  I can sort of see why they wrote him like that now.  That kind of detail, while it obviously bothered me (when it really, really shouldn't have, because like I said, I haven't read the comics.  I just know comic people and I apparently pick these things up without meaning to.  Curse you, friends!  I should be a movie-verse only person by all rights and you have ruined me.), was okay.  Not a deal breaker, unless it's something major. 

What bothers me is like in New Who fics, when the Doctor is having an inner monologue, and he thinks something like "I've never gotten this close to a companion before" or "I've never had someone who was my best friend like so and so is."  And again, Mem just wants to shake the author.  He's over 900 years old, and he's never had a best friend before?  Putting aside the fact that he has actively called other characters his best friend in Classic Who (and yes, I wibble every time I watch Seeds of Doom and he introduces Sarah Jane as his best friend), his life does not start and end with your favorite character.  Really, it doesn't.  It's gotten to the point where I almost can't read New Who fic any more, because it feels like it's so short sighted.  I'm not saying you have to have watched every single episode.  I haven't, and it's a lot for anyone to swallow, even the older fans.  I'm just saying a little research won't kill you, or at least be aware that hey, canon exists outside of your narrow vision of fandom.  Because I literally have stopped reading fics for lines like that, since it feels like an insult to everything that came before it. 

If you're in a fandom with history, at least be respectful of it.

5. Slashers mistreating female characters:
You know, I had naively thought this was a thing of the past.  I really did.  It was something I came across daily when I was getting into fandom in high school, but since I've moved away from anime fandoms, I've seen less of it.  And then I jumped into Vesperia fandom and there it was again, rearing it's ugly head. 

Now, I've never been in a fandom with an active ship war, or if I have, I'm managed to completely avoid it.  So I have no idea whether or not this happens to the male third wheel characters as well, but I've seen slashers viciously attack any female character that has the potential to get in the way of their ship and this bothers me.  This bothers me a lot.  It bothers me enough that I've technically written two fics protesting just that.  Catching the Wind being the latest protest, and my Gundam Wing fic which sort of went the opposite route, with the het instead of slash and the usual slash character being on the outside of the relationship.

I've probably mentioned this before, but back when I was first getting into fandom, I really, really didn't like slash.  It wasn't because of some internalized homophobia or anything, though I'd certainly lacked exposure to it, but because slashers could not stand any and all female characters, and therefore bashed them to bits.  That, more than the whole gay thing, repulsed me to the point where I stayed on het only sites because at least there I could be female and not feel overwhelming hatred towards me.  Which makes absolutely no sense to me at all, considering how many slashers I know that *are* women. 

Admittedly, I was in the wrong place at the wrong time.  Gundam Wing fandom was so viciously split on het vs. slash at the time that both sides were pretty nasty to each other.  So I wrote a fic where one character in the usual pairing was gay and the other was straight just to piss off both sides.  Sadly, it backfired on me.  Instead of getting flames from both sides, I had both slashers and het fans as loyal readers.  The moral of the story?  Mem fails as a troll, but apparently proves you can have both in a story and it still be quite awesome.  Seriously. I got one pathetic "If you don't make Duo happy..." sort of comment, but that was the closest I got to flames.  I would have been severely disappointed if it weren't for how supportive people were being and generally reviving my faith in humanity. 

Catching the Wind has also done some good, as I've gotten a few comments from Sodia-haters who really enjoyed her part in my fic.  Because though she is the female character who could, potentially, get in the way of ship, she's also a character in her own right who makes mistakes and tries to make up for them.  So instead of bashing her like the fic that prompted me to write this one, I had her be the key to the whole thing.  Without her loyalty to Flynn, the slash would never have happened.  Yuri would still be stubbornly unconvinced and Flynn would still be trying to stubbornly convince him.  As I mentioned earlier, those two can't give into each other.  It's not in their nature.  Someone from the outside though to come and knock some sense into them?  Yeah, that can work, actually.  And it can be done without being disrespectful to the female character.

To put it frankly, I have proof twice over that being nice to the third wheel female character works fantastically.  So, why are we bashing them again?

6. Character bashing in general:
It should tell you something that I've got two bullets for basically the same thing.  Going back to Gundam Wing, I actually liked some of the female characters.  Not all of them, granted, and oh, God, someone shoot me now if I have to sit through too much more Relena and her pink limo.  But, I did like the majority of them.  Even (and especially) Dorothy, who just about everyone else hated.  Yeah, her eyebrows.  I know, believe me I do.  They were frightening.  And she messed with Quatre.  But I liked her, when all was said and done.  Mostly because she also messed with Relena, but hey.  She was a very good foil, and I'm more than able to appreciate that. 

What I didn't appreciate was everyone, slashers and non-slashers alike, bashing her to high heaven.  It's a bit like my feelings with a lot of the Moffat-haters.  You start to feel ostracized for liking something that obviously everyone should hate because it's so terrible, and how can anyone like it?  And sure, you're welcome to have your opinion.  You're welcome to have strong opinions.  I certainly do.  But that doesn't mean you can completely invalidate my point of view just because I happen to prefer Moffat (despite some pretty obvious faults. I'm not saying the last season was perfect in the slightest.  Though the fact that I had to rather defensively qualify that should tell you a lot about the shit I've been getting for this.) to RTD.  I may not have been silent on my dislike of Rose, but I never made my friends feel left out for liking her.  Hell, if anything it was the other way around, since I was just about the only person I knew who hated her, other than my mother. 

Does that mean you can bash Rose in fic?  Not on my watch.

Because I've been on that side of the fence with Dorothy, and other characters. And let me tell you, it sucks having people make fun of a character you like.  If you can't stand them, then don't use them.  It's as simple as that.  How did I write GW fanfic without bashing?  I avoided using Relena.  She just wasn't necessary to the plot, so I didn't feel the need to bring her in just to make fun of her.  When I did need her in the plot, I treated her respectfully, and was thanked by Relena fans, because it was rare enough that someone acting maturely was outside of the norm.  I even wrote a whole scene from her POV, just to prove that hey, I still can't stand her, but that's not going to stop me. 

And occasionally, writing a scene from a character you hate's point of view can change the way you see them.  Sadly, I still despise Relena.  I'm not sure much can change that.  But, in writing a short scene from Wufei's POV, I actually grew to like the character a lot, when I'd really disliked him before.  And then I watched the Japanese version and loved him so much more.  Really, I blame half of my original hate for Wufei on the American voice actor, which I don't mean to say I hate the voice actor.  I adored him as Hotohori in Fushigi Yuugi.  He just didn't make a good Wufei in my opinion.  It really wasn't until writing the character though that I realized there was a lot more depth to him than everyone who claimed he was nothing more than a woman-hater.  Afterwards, I really started to dislike Wufei bashing as much as I disliked Dorothy bashing. 

If you don't believe me, ask Nar.  She got the whole lecture on character bashing on her Ten/Simm Master fic, and it was Rose I was defending.  There's always someone out there who likes the character you hate, so just respect their opinions. 

7. Alpha/Omega verse:
This isn't technically a pet peeve or an annoyance, because hell, I just spent 650 words on how you should respect other people's opinions and don't want to be a hypocrite.  This is more of an open-ended plea.  Just tell me why.  Because from where I'm sitting? It not only makes no sense, but it's severely creepy.  Why is this a thing, people?  Where did this even start?  Google searches tell me it's caused by the show Supernatural, but that doesn't explain the why.  So if you are a fan of this, feel free to speak up and tell me of it's redeeming qualities and why you like this.  Until then, I'm going to hide in the corner.

8. The wasteful gun dilemma:
This is about the only thing on this list that can't be tied back to characterization, actually.  And the point I'm making this with isn't actually from fic, but from canon.  But I realized that I had an issue with it today when I basically started quoting JMS at someone, so, I figure I might as well add it in here.  Here's JMS' quote, and it's mostly a quote from someone else's first rule of play writing. 

"I subscribe to Anton Chekov's First Rule of Playwriting: "If there's a gun on the wall in act one, scene one, you must fire the gun by act three, scene two. If you fire a gun in act three, scene two, you must see the gun on the wall in act one, scene one."

Waste nothing."
-JMS, taken from the Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5, on the episode Chrysalis.

There's a reason I never, ever post anything before it's completely finished.  That includes chapter fics.  All of my chapter fics have been completed before posting.  Which isn't to say there wasn't intensive re-writing done while posting based off feed back I was getting, but I like to have things completed so that I can go back and make sure that first rule is followed.  Hell, I don't think it was even a conscious effort on my part for the longest time.  It's just something I did, because if I wanted something to happen, it needed to be set up properly.  And if I'm changing things mid-plot, which I do occasionally, I want to be able to go back and change the beginning so it still fits.  Plus, it's a fantastic way to set up long term jokes.  See the Tennyson poem in my xxxHolic side fic for details.  Let it never be said that a long term set up can't pack a hell of a punch.  Though I think the best example of this is probably 8-bit Theater, what with it's 11 year set up for that final punch line that was. Just. So. Hilarious.

The former part, you can get away with occasionally.  Misdirection, or simply bad planning, it won't bother people as much.  The latter?  You miss out on the latter, and hell yeah, there are problems.  The best (or rather, worst) example of this is the character of Mels in the sixth season of New Who.  We were literally blindsided with this character who was supposedly Amy and Rory's bestmate.  A bestmate one would assume would at least be mentioned earlier.  Even if she wasn't at the wedding, a line or two before we met Mels would have been wonderful.  Instead, I spent the whole episode sitting there going "Really?  You're just going to throw this at us out of no where?" rather than actually enjoying the character and her development.  If you're wondering why Mels gets the occasional mention in Amy-verse, it's my attempt to compensate for this, even a little.  This just bothered me.

Now, a lot of stories aren't complex enough to really need this strategy.  However, if you're going to be writing something of a more complex nature, you better damn well not blindside your audience like that.  It's just poor planning. 

If you are looking for examples of where this technically pays off spectacularly, I recommend watching Babylon 5.  Just saying.  XD  Though, if you're looking more for fic wise, the Avengers Toaster-verse just had a fantastic pay off of the gun on the wall variety.  So really, it does work, and it works quite well. 

9. Cussing:
I have no problem with cussing.  Really, I don't.  What I dislike is when a character starts cussing for no apparent reason.  Yes, I realize some people use the f-bomb a lot more readily than I do.  And some people are just like that.  But unless we're talking something like Good Will Hunting (which I only very vaguely remember, because the cussing is the only thing I can think of about that movie), most canon has censors to deal with.  Which isn't to say characters can't cuss even if they don't do so in the show, but there has to be a reason/emotion for it, or it's just out of character.  Just randomly cussing in normal speech?  Yeah, just don't.  I'll stop reading, especially if it feels way out of character.  Some characters you can sort of get away with it, but for the most part, it just doesn't work voice wise.  Give me a reason for it, or an intense emotion behind it, and we'll talk.  Cause, after all, you can get away with anything so long as it's justified and characterized well. 

10. Sex:
Okay, so there is nothing against any of you who like reading sex.  Really, if that's what floats your boat, I'm thrilled for you.  Enjoy it!  This is not to make you feel guilty in any way, shape, or form or to shame you from reading PWP's.  All the more power to ya.  For me though?  They do nothing for me.  At best, it's interestingly characterized and I can actually read it.  At worst, I'm bored to tears and scanning through to get to the good stuff.  No, I take that back.  At worst, I'm scarred for life and hiding in the corner, because hell if there aren't some scarring sex scenes out there.  Some of the prose alone can give me nightmares. 

But really, if I'm sitting there enjoying the plot of a fic, must it be interrupted five or six times for sex?  Does any fic/novel need that many sex scenes?  I just want the plot, because that was interesting, and you've given me another chapter that is 50% sex!  This annoys me.  Sometimes, I wish authors would put a sex scene count on their long fics, so I can just avoid anything over three.  I'm sure some people are loving it, but I just want to get on with the good stuff.

Also, characterization can be thrown out the window during sex.  You'll see a well characterized fic, and all the sudden the characters aren't acting like themselves any more.  This possibly might go back to my whole issue with the bottom-must-equal-sub thing though, so who knows. *shrugs*

Yeeeeeeeeeeah, that was far longer than I expected it to be.  Didn't mean to go off on you guys like that.  But considering I've been trying, and semi-failing, on not lecturing people who are kind enough to say nice things about my fics, I figured if I just got it all out of my system now I might just be able to smile and say thank you.  ^_^;;;  The good news is that apparently protest fic is doing some good in the world.  As mentioned, I've had several Sodia-haters tell me they've turned a new leaf towards her, so hey!  Sucess!  I've also put it up for the Your Tales of contest just for kicks.  I doubt it'll make, if just because length even without going into merit, but it's kind of fun to look around at other people's entries.  <3

Also, is it sad that out of nine things, only one of those doesn't directly have to do with the first point?  I could have just put them under one bullet.  -_-;;;  To make up for my whining, have these two totally SFW made of WIN pictures to make your day.  Oh, and this one. (also SFW but with a cuss word or two if it offends someone's sensibilities. )


( 8 comments — Leave a comment )
Jun. 24th, 2012 01:44 am (UTC)
Nar's ability to annoy Mem: 5/10. Clearly, I must do better than that. Next time I need to write an Omegaverse fic with a wasteful gun dilemma, where I pretend to know nothing about the fandom history.

By and large, though, I agree with everything on here. Especially OOC-ness. It is the game-killer, the OOC.
Jun. 24th, 2012 01:53 am (UTC)
We've already had this discussion on Omegaverse. There would be a lecture. A very long lecture. And then you would be told no. Besides, you would balk when you got to the sex bits.

Yeah, OOC is the main killer. Most of that list stems from characterization in some form.

I did also forget the whole 'falling in love with the next in the family line' thing for a pet peeve. Both with Agent 13 and when they do it with Steve/Howard then Steve/Tony. I meant to put that in there as well, but I'm not sure which I'd knock off for it, lol.
Jun. 24th, 2012 02:23 am (UTC)
Okay, I don't generally read Omegaverse (I just can't do male pregnancy stuff, for reasons even I don't fully understand), but I do see some good in it.

1. Nice mix of established rules and freedom to world build. There's a basic premise, but then there's lots of room to develop your vision of Alpha/Omega society.
2. Interesting possibilities for alternative power structures/gender roles and an opportunity to explore how these structures would change established character arcs.
3. A way to avoid PWP for some kinks that might otherwise lead pretty naturally to PWP.

Thanks for the interesting list of pet peeves. You make excellent points!
Jun. 24th, 2012 02:48 am (UTC)
...Another reason for me not to read Omegaverse. Mpreg is a squick of mine. ^_^;;; I think it's safer for me to pass on it. XD

Hm. Those are good points though. I'm not much for AU's myself, but I can see why those would make them more interesting. The appeal of alternative power structures is far from new to scifi, after all.

It seemed like from all the summaries I read that it was all just sex, so I was a little scarred. ^_^;;; And apparently it was a huge thing that everyone was asking for and left me like... wtf? Oh, the odd things fandom comes up with.

Thanks for explaining it!

I think I've just run across so many of those recently, I'd go boom if I didn't vent it somewhere. And I preferably didn't want to go boom on the helpless reviewers who were just saying they were originally character bashers, because they are saying nice things about me after all. Glad the venting didn't bore you!
Sep. 18th, 2012 10:30 am (UTC)
Found my way via Unicorn fic, saw the b5 tag and found this. Unfortunately I'm unfamiliar with most of your fandoms, but... This list is so true! And that's why you get my 2ct.

1. Sometimes it also shows poor understanding of a chara. But some fans love their favourite char and say "He would never do that in this situation!" (rose-coloured glasses, anyone?) while others say "If you think of his previous experiences - yes, his violence and anger is an understandable reaction in this situation."
And that's why I'm not a writer, I can't see things from the chara's perspective and therefore can't predict how he might react in a scenario, I only can try to comprehend an action/a reaction.

2. Unfortunately, this is something I often found in Anime fandom. In lots of fics I found one of them has to be the weak subby sub, because the other is apparently big and strong, so he can't be the subby sub. It's rather annoying.

3. I rather prefer switching stories, too.
Like I heard somebody saying "Sometimes you want the bun and sometimes you want the sausage." (Sorry, literal translation. I'm not an English Native). Or to use a quote from a Harry Potter fanfic: "'Would you show me how it feels?' Harry asked, breathless. 'The way you like it? To…to be taken?'". The Sonnet Series by Afrocurl and Nekosmuse http://archiveofourown.org/series/12768 (X-Men First Class fandom, might be nothing for you because non-powered University AU and the sex scenes are rather explicit, but from my - rather limited experience - point of view very well written and realistic) had a paragraph in the third installment of the series (Love's Own Crown) which said that "he was struck with the almost uncontrollable urge to top. That never happened" which was really nice because through the story they switch again and it's explained why.
There are also well-written stories where charas prefer to bottom/top. However, in Anime Fandom I seldom came across them. It's rather hard to not find the Uke/Seme theme.
I think, some people really believe switching hurts...

5. Well, some people see the female character as a potentially rival which has to be eliminated so that there can be boys love. If you write good characterization, you don't have to bash characters.

6. There's always someone out there who likes the character you hate, so just respect their opinions.

Thank you for that. I am still a rather active reader in an old americanized Anime fandom (the german dub is <3 for me) and there is a canon paring Colt/Robin. However, a lot of the fans I know are rather big Colt-fans and tend to hate Robin because she is pacifistic and tends to hate weapons and shooting things and Colt is a sharp shooter (and she doesn't swoon when they first met but was rather annoyed with him although he tried to help her, because he was a show-off). There were a few episodes with her and in one of them an old man advises her to have patience and comprehension if she doesn't want to lose him, because it's very hard to stop fighting if you've done it your whole life. And you can see it in her face that she gets it, that she's going to try. However, most of the girls don't like her because "Colt deserves something better" and describe her as a bitchy bitch who is going to henpeck him. There were some ugly comments and I found it sad that they say they tolerate different opinions but make bitchy comments like school girls if you say things out of their point of view.

7. That made me cringe, too. Alpha/Beta/Omegaverse was like a written invitation for more PWP and subby subs and their big bad strong doms and most of the stories I found were like that. And I prefer mostly equality and plot with my porn, so I rather try to skip those fics. However, "Thanks, Biology" by Unforgotten http://archiveofourown.org/works/437204 made me laugh real hard. It's not your stereotypical Alpha/Omega and rather funny.

8. Yay for not wasting the gun! It's a good reason to re-read or re-watch something because you can be led astray or collect hints for something (the first 4 Babylon 5 seasons are such a good example) and sometimes you still say "I wouldn't have expected that" but it's understandable how or why it happened.
Sep. 18th, 2012 09:16 pm (UTC)
Babylon 5 fans unite! There are too few of us, friend. Far too few.

Yeah, sometimes it is a poor understanding, but I think a lot of people just want characters to act the way they want them to (Character A must break down sobbing now! Because he totally should so he can get cuddles!) rather than how a character should act (Character A doesn't cry, and pushes Character B away, because he can't break down in front of anyone), so they can have their happy fic.

The subby-weak characters are rather annoying. >.< I saw it a lot in anime too, sadly. I've read one or two Dom/Sub fics that really work. Cause, like I said, practically every scenario is possible. It's just how you spin it. I don't remember where the fic is, but a DW fic had the Tenth Doctor needing the Master to hurt him, with many D/S sort of ways. Which under normal circumstances just makes me roll my eyes and go to a new fic. But before they went anywhere with the sex, the Doctor prefaced it with the equivalent of "This stays in the bedroom. I won't submit to you in any other situation. Do you understand that?" And all of the sudden, it's believable, in character, and they've given reasons for why the Doctor feels that way, so completely plausible. Three lines that make it in character. A lot of people just don't want to do the work to qualify it though.

"Sometimes you want the bun and sometimes you want the sausage."

rofl! Okay, that made me laugh. Awesome statement. And thanks for the recs, though I don't know those fandoms well. Sadly, the Uke/Seme theme isn't just anime. It spans all fandoms I've come across.

On female characters and their haters... I had the same sort of experience in GW, as chronicled above. I've written I've hated before without bashing them. It's easy enough to do, so long as you're mature about it. I just wish other people realized that.

I think I've just given up on Omegaverse completely. I tried a few, just to make sure. I was squicked and horrified. I just don't rant about them, because hey, someone else likes that kink, even if I don't. It's obviously got a fan following, after all. I'm fine with not being part of that following. -_-;;;

B5 is always a good example. I hold it up to my fandoms now as the better example and keep asking why they aren't as good. Sometimes, that depresses me. But it's so true.
Sep. 18th, 2012 10:33 am (UTC)
this didn't fit in the previous comment
10. My problem with sex in fanfics is that sometimes it's like slash=anal sex. Petting, stroking, frottage, intercrural? No, it's from kissing to penetrative sex in 10 seconds and like you said, the top/bottom can become an issue.
Sometimes there are stories where charas don't have penetrative sex or the scene fades out before the actual act, so you don't have the top/sub-discussion.
Also: Sex can be messy, funny, raunchy, boring and bad and I don't know that much about it, but it's amazing how much of a turn-on a well-written sex scene can be, especially if the author concentrates more on the feelings of the characters than the act itself. It's also amazing how much you can learn about sex with a realistic scenario in a fanfic. Not everything has to be like out of a porno, no-one is a sexgod and there is something called foreplay! However, there are a lot of bad-written sexfanfics, too so I understand why somebody would be scarred (and I prefer kink warnings, it's so annoying when authors can't be bothered to write a warning!). And OOC during sex damages my enjoyment of the rest of the fic and sometimes I want to whack the authors with the Guides About Writing Good Sex Scenes (and writing good slash scenes) - it's not that hard to find these and use them.
Sep. 18th, 2012 09:32 pm (UTC)
Re: this didn't fit in the previous comment
Fade to black sex scenes are one of the few things that keep me sane. XD Left up to the imagination is fantastic.

All I know about sex comes from fanfic, to be honest. That's actually why the two sex scenes I have written were both penetrative, because it was about all I could find when I was researching 'the choreography'. I also benefited from Guides About Writing Good Sex Scenes, because hey, if I'm doing something, I might as well try to do it right.

For me it's not so much that a lot of sex fic is badly written (though they are), but written sex in general doesn't do much for me. So unless there are feelings or something else going on in the scene, I get really bored, really quickly. There's a very, very rare fic/stories that will turn me on, but of the three instances I can think of... none of them actually had sex. One was Steve drawing (http://archiveofourown.org/works/43377/chapters/56640), the other is this DW fic of the Scream of the Shalka webcast, which was sexy because of the whole Doctor's finger prints on every bit of him thing (As seen here: http://neveralarch.livejournal.com/31676.html). The final one was actually an Arina Tanemura manga, where the character the female lead is crushing on kisses her hand. I'm odd, I know. But I manage. And I've certainly got nothing against those who do like sex scenes. As I told one of the reviewers on Untameable, I was basically putting my words into Tony's mouth for a lot of those last two scenes.

But yeah, sex seems to be the easiest sort of scene to go wrong on, which is sad. I always seem to appreciate foreplay more when people add it, since you can actually characterize that quite a lot.

Edited at 2012-09-18 09:33 pm (UTC)
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